PRESENT POINT POWER

First Deputy Premier Datuk Najib Razak said it and PM Abdullah twisted it and DAP MP Karpal Singh rebutted it H E R E in Malaysiakini

Now Dr Mahathir says it again in Langkawi ”

Malaysia

is an Islamic State” – though not officially and neither secular but recognized by most. (see below)
others may argue:

One may raise the issue of the ‘Merdeka Agreement”/‘Social Contract’ and say that it was intended to be “secular” but the reality is whatever the expectations are on the ‘Social Contract’ may be, what the character of a state is – whether secular, Islamic or theocratic – is measured by and reflected in the land, its peoples (including majority peoples), predominant culture and its rulers, with all four indicia representing the cornerstones of a state……

More details from Jeffery, a commenter at Kit's Blog on August 6th, 2007 at 17: 09.06

Also see H E R E On

Secular/Islamic state contention just word-play or argument over labels? at the DAP public forum “An Islamic State after 50 years?” on 25th July 2007

What we are witnessing from these politicians is the philosophy of pragmatism in our truths, what we believe, are based upon your experiences; and as they hold to be efficient we hold them to be truthful but this view of efficiency is distorted. "There's only relative truth. Relative truth is for us, absolute truth is for God. So, let's not waste time to seek truth, because..."

There is no Truth Within Pragmatism; Truths are mere beliefs, but as you identify them as Truths, you do not see them as Beliefs and there is NO Absolute Truth
No Truth Within Pragmatism. In this philosophy, Truth is dependent upon experience. That there are truths that are unchanging but a pragmatist incorporates all of this philosophy, and creates their own truth relative to their experience; but NOT beyond. There are truths beyond physical experience; constants that are, within themselves, a priori,( accepted without being thought about or questioned. The existence of God is a priori for most people with a religious faith. In a court of law, a priori assumptions about guilt and innocence can be dangerous.) - to which a pragmatist does not subscribe.
We view efficiency as what may be easiest; we believe this to be expedient. But again what you incorporate within physical focus may not always be your easiest path, so to speak, but it may be your most efficient for your intent. You may incorporate action which needs some effort initially, for you have trained yourselves within one direction; but within your action, your effortlessness comes. Therefore, the pragmatist views the experiences as being true, if they are efficient, temporarily; but once another philosophy introduces itself and they are viewing this as efficient also, they are inclined to be discontinuing in one and moving to another, much as a leaf blowing through the wind. It incorporates effortlessness in allowing the wind to carry it, but it does not direct itself. In this same way, the pragmatist floats with what he views to be an efficient philosophy, on a temporary basis.

There are truths which are unchanging but pragmatists do not believe in unchanging truths. All things, to the pragmatist, are changing; even truths. There is no truth within pragmatism! They are very aware of this fact, which they also incorporate quite well! Facts are very much within their focus. If a fact is presented, it is accepted.

There is no absolute, everyone speaks from his or her own truth. The point is you speak from your own beliefs, your own expressed beliefs. There are truths and there is the definition of a truth. A truth is some expression, which is translatable in every area of consciousness in some manner. What is translatable in every area of consciousness, in some manner? Is it due to reality, tone or color but not YOUR associations? Is it translatable in every area of consciousness, unchangeable? . Truth contains no distortion

= = == == = = == = == = =Dr Mahathir repeats his views on Islamic State

Stop harping about whether

Malaysia

is an Islamic state, Mahathir says

By SEAN YOONG Associated Press Writer Aug 7, 2:11 AM EDT
LANGKAWI, Malaysia (AP) -- Malaysia is an Islamic state even though it is not officially called that, former Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad said Tuesday, stepping into a national debate over religion that has raised concern among the country's minority Chinese and Indians.

"Officially we are not an Islamic state, neither are we a secular state. But by definition, as recognized by most international societies, Malaysia is an Islamic state," Mahathir told reporters. But that doesn't mean non-Muslims are deprived of their rights, Mahathir said.

Concerns have mounted among the country's large Buddhist, Christian and Hindu minorities that their rights are becoming subordinate to Islam following a recent series of religious disputes that ended infavor of ethnic Malay Muslims, who comprise nearly 60 percent of Malaysia's 26 million people. Malaysia's Constitution does not clearly say whether the country is secular or theocratic, but states that Islam is the official

religion. It also guarantees freedom of worship for non-Muslims. Last month, Deputy Prime Minister Najib Razak upset minorities and civil rights groups by saying Malaysia is an Islamic state. On Saturday Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi said Malaysia is not a theocratic state, but neither is it a secular state. Mahathir said too much talk about such issues could prove harmful for the multiracial country, in which Chinese comprise about 25 percent of the population and Indians 10 percent.

"I think it is not leading us anywhere except to create a lot of problems," he said. "People have never suffered in Malaysia. There may be cases of those people who want to convert and all that, but otherwise we have lived together - people of different races, different religions - without any problems. Why are we going to talk about this problem?"
Much of the debate over Malaysia's identity has been triggered by the reluctance of civil courts to make rulings in cases involving disputes between Muslims and non-Muslims. The courts have instead

referred the cases to Shariah courts, which govern the conduct and lives of Muslims. The Shariah courts have invariably ruled in favorof the Muslims.

The most controversial case was that of Lina Joy, a woman born to Muslim parents who failed to get the Federal Court to recognize her conversion to Christianity. The court rejected her appeal to have the "Islam" tag removed from her national identity card in May, saying that only the Shariah court could rule over that.
= = == == = == =and from
from anilnetto.com/

What does Najib mean by "Islamic state"?
posted on Tuesday, August 7th, 2007 at 3.03 pm

When Deputy Prime Minister Najib Razak declared that Malaysia is an "Islamic state", he created quite a stir and quickly polarized public opinion between advocates of an Islamic state and those who believe Malaysia is a secular nation. Much of the debate now is constrained by knee-jerk reactions to the labels. So let's go behind the labels and look at the substance: what exactly does Najib mean by "Islamic state"? An academic friend of mine shared these thoughts with me:
"Does he (Najib) mean a state which:

- has a constitutional monarchy,
- espouses parliamentary democracy with an equal franchise for all regardless of religion,
- has a plural system of laws (although non-bumiputera customary law has been eliminated), with the civil law based upon the Constitutionas supreme and the final arbiter of our worldly affairs,
- has no restrictions on who, in principle, can be the prime minister of the federation or the chief minister of any state in the federation, not unlike, say, (Shmu'el) HaNagid (993-1056), the leader of Andalusia's Jews, who became, in 1037, vizier of the Muslimkingdom of Granada and commander in chief of its Islamic armedforces, second only to the king of Granada,
http://www.pen.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/1236/prmID/1404
- provides for equal rights for all citizens,
- upholds equality before the law,
- practises a single system of taxation for all,
- provides for the free practice of all religions without discrimination?

"OR, instead, does he mean a state in which:

- non-Muslims must cede all secular power to Muslims,
- non-Muslims are subject to discriminatory taxation,
- non-Muslims live and worship only by the secular grace of Muslims,
- non-Muslims cannot, in principle, hold any positions above a certain technical level,
- a non-plural system of laws, defined by someone's interpretation of sharia (see, Abdullah an-Na'im), is imposed upon all,
- the Constitution does not represent the supreme aw of the land,
- non-Muslims are not free to live where they choose,
- there is no concept of citizenship regardless of religion?
"It seems to me that if we can get a declaration of assent to the first set - that that is indeed what is meant by an Islamic state -then it would not quite matter what adjective is prefixed to our state. And if such a notion of an Islamic state gains wider assent, that would be a major positive contribution to the global battle."

= == = == = ==and Mahathir's Bakery - The loaf - a branch is coming to KL on Sept 20 07 at Jalan Bukit Bintang

STAR Nation; Sturday August 4, 2007

Dr Mahathir’s bakery to open second outlet in Kuala Lumpur

KUALA LUMPUR: The Loaf, the bakery cum bistro jointly owned by Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad, will open its second outlet at the Pavilion here on Sept 20. The former Prime Minister, who revealed this yesterday, said Loaf’s first outlet in Langkawi which opened last year had been “very well accepted.” “So much that my (Japanese) partner and I decided we should come to KL,'' he said during a Q&A session after delivering a keynote address on 'Driving Malaysia as a Franchising Hub' at the Putra World Trade Centre yesterday. Dr Mahathir had set up the bakery in Langkawi with Japanese businessman Jiro Suzuki. “I have been telling people to do things and advising people in business. Now let’s see if I can do what I have been telling other people. “I hope I succeed. I hope I encounter difficulties and find solutions to them. Then I can talk with greater authority,” he said.

He said if the business was successful here, he would consider franchising The Loaf. The Loaf is a Japanese-style gourmet bakery using Japanese baking techniques. It employs a famed Japanese baker. Dr Mahathir said that in going into business, one should always do it properly and not “cut corners.” “I believe one should produce a really good product,” he said, in conceding that some locals found the prices at the Loaf a bit expensive.

The Loaf is located
C9, Perdana Quay, Telaga Harbour Park
Pantai Kok, 07000 Langkawi; Tel 04/959-4866; Fax: 04/959-4803

= = == = ==

Tun Dr. Mahathir is pleased with the turnout of foreign leaders for LID

Monday, August 06, 2007 - 12:06 PM

Langkawi - Former Prime Minister, Tun Dr. Mahathir is pleased with the turnout of foreign leaders for this year's Langkawi International Dialogue.

Tun Mahathir was met at the loaf, bakery and bistro co-owned by him at the picturesque Telaga Harbour in Langkawi. When asked to comment that some countries with better financial resources were pouring money into Africa foe development, he said Malaysia did not have that kind of money but the nation has other ways to assits within its capacity. un Mahathir also described this year's LID theme of "Poverty Eradiction Through Human Capital Development and Capacity Building," as appropriate. This year's dialogue will address issues confronting human development challenges, which are closely linked with peace and security and environmental challenges.