Sunday, November 05, 2006

MORE PICS- SMS About BAPTISM CEREMONY of “Muslims” at CHURCH Of Our Lady of LOURDES, IPOH; Several NGOs Found out “MUSLIMS” Were ACTUALLY Indians.

Last Update 9: 20th Nov 2006; 20:55pm
Go H E R E to continue the Saga of the SMS Sender on

Dr Mohamed Azam (Lecturer UiTM) 9 Years STUDY: NUMBER Apostates Among Muslims < 300; MAJORITY are Muslim CONVERTS; And “RAJA SHERINA” Where are U HIDING? See YOUR Photo! Does She Exist? Another Red Herring?!

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Update 8: 18th Nov 2006; 0058am
I Am A Muslim, Says Azhar; November 17, 2006 21:55 PM

KUALA LUMPUR, Nov 17 (Bernama) -- National solo sailor, Datuk Azhar Mansor Friday killed speculations that he was an apostate by stating in the Umno general assembly that he was still a Malay and a Muslim. Azhar, 48, who successfully sailed round the world solo in 1999 said this at a press conference at the Putra World Trade Centre (PWTC) where the Umno General Assembly was being held. He hoped that the statement would stop the speculations about his faith which started since 1999. While winding up the debate on the last day of the assembly Friday, Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi announced that a national hero by the name of Azhar Mansor was present in the assembly hall. He pointed to Azhar who was sitting in the observers' seat. "Azhar Mansor has come to the assembly to declare that he still is a Muslim," said Abdullah who is also the Umno President. Azhar, clad in a blue shirt smiled when the CCTV focussed on him. Azhar said, the issue whether he is a Muslim or not should not arise because he never applied to leave Islam whether in Malaysia or abroad. "But (as) everybody knows, my responsibility, what I cling to, my faith is to Allah SWT... Don't ask (religious faith) me now," he said. Azhar said this when asked on his religion after the SMS which was sent alleging that he would baptise a group of Muslims at a church in Perak last Nov 5. More than 500 Muslims and representatives from several non-governmental organisations (NGOs) gathered in front of the church to protest the action.

The SMS also said that Perak Mufti Datuk Seri Harussani Zakaria had confirmed the baptism. Azhar said, the allegation that he had left Islam started since 1999 after he completed his round the world solo trip and the allegation was spread through the Internet by irresponsible elements. He did not deny the allegation at that time and his name was again involved in the apostate issue sent through the SMS recently.

"I live my life in Malaysia according to syarak laws and the laws of this country. I have never done anything wrong. If you want to ask whether a man is a Muslim or not ask those who commit rape. I only do my job and do not disturb anybody. Last Nov 14, Azhar made a police report in Langkawi on the SMS issue and the police had identified the original sender. The SMS issue had raised speculations among the people on Azhar's religion because he had not made any statement denying the allegation before. Azhar, married with three children, said he is a Malay and Muslim, born in Kangar, Perlis and members of his family are Muslims. "So, I don't think there should be any problem on the status of my religion (Islam), the matter should not become an issue. That is why I don't want to take a serious view of it (SMS and Internet), this is a sensitive thing," Azhar said. However, when asked by reporters to end the speculation by "mengucap" ( saying "I bear witness that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Messenger), Azhar said, he would not do this merely to satisfy some people. "You, you, you, did your mother ask you to "mengucap"? My father did not ask me to do so because we "mengucap" everytime we pray.

"I will not do it (mengucap). It is not doomsday when I will be questioned. We will not know where we will end up on doomsday," he said. Asked whether he regarded the SMS as a slander (fitnah), Azhar said: "I don't know the use of the word... I never (asked) what anybody wants to wear, or where he wants to hang out (at a coffee shop or elsewhere), it is his business... we should take care of ourselves." Azhar said, he had not made up his mind whether to take legal action or not against the SMS sender because the police were still investigating the case. Also present at the press conference were the Prime Minister's Religious Adviser, Tan Sri Dr Abdul Hamid Othman, Perlis Mufti Datuk Panglima Alim Mat Jahaya Hussin and Umno Executive Secretary Datuk Paduka Husainay Hashim.

Meanwhile, Abdul Hamid said, faith and lifestyle were two separate things in Islam, and a person remained a Muslim until he announced that he had left Islam.

= = = = = and the Q & A from the Sun

Mariner Azhar: I have not renounced Islam; Husna Yusop

KUALA LUMPUR (Nov 17, 2006): Mariner Datuk Azhar Mansor today declared he had not renounced Islam as had been speculated since he achieved his round-the-world solo sailing feat in 1999. In a press conference held at the Putra World Trade Centre (PWTC) on the last day of the Umno general assembly, Azhar made the declaration in the company of Religious Advisor to the Prime Minister Tan Sri Dr Abdul Hamid Othman and Umno executive secretary Brig Gen Datuk Husainay Hashim. Later, in his winding-up speech, Umno president Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi told the assembly that Azhar had taken the opportunity to be there to say that he is a Muslim and that there should now be an end to the speculation. Azhar was then in the crowd and he stood up to applause. At the start of his press conference earlier, Azhar gave the salam before explaining he was there as an observer to the assembly and decided to take the opportunity to meet the press and address a situation that could potentially affect public order. He was referring to the incident on Nov 5 at the Our Lady of Lourdes Church in Jalan Silibin, Ipoh where a large group of Muslims gathered outside the church on being informed via SMS that Azhar was to baptise a group of Muslims there. They dispersed after police investigated and assured them no such thing was happening and that there were about 100 children of Indian descent who were being baptised. This is the Q&A of the press conference:

Q: The polemic has arisen because of the status of your religion. Can you make it clear whether you are still a Muslim or not? A: Sometimes, I wonder... I can make this answer a very long, long one, or I can also make it short. But I sometimes wonder, where is the confusion? Of course, from what I understand, the rumours about me no longer being a Muslim have been there since 1999 when I was still sailing. This issue has been doubted and questioned until today. From being circulated in the Internet to now in an SMS. I have not given it much thought because it was an Internet source. But to go specific to the SMS, whereby my name was involved, on the incident in Ipoh which should not have happened, I was surprised myself because I got the SMS after the incident. I was informed through my family members in Ipoh that many people had gathered to protest since I was supposed to be there to baptise people. This was out of my knowledge. Now it is under police investigation. If only in the Internet, it is okay but when there is an SMS which affected public order, I would also like to know the cause and agenda of such an SMS.

Q: After so many days, people are wondering why you have not declared that you are still a Muslim? A: I cannot control other people's perception.

Q: Are you a Muslim? A: My mindset is trained differently. As a sailor, my stand is, I am a person who wants to know what is in front of my eyes and in my hands. What others want to say about me, I cannot control.

Q: But you can use this opportunity to declare that you am still a Muslim! Just say yes or no. A: Then we can go back? I also want to know what else you want to know from me.

Q: It is just whether you are a Muslim or not. A: That's it? Q: Before this we heard from a third party, so now we want to hear it from you. A: If I say that, you will all leave this room. I would also like to get to know you all too. Sometimes I wonder, why people want to know which shirt I am wearing, why I am wearing shorts. Why do you want to know this? In fact, I have certain responsibilities which I have to adhere to and that is what I should concentrate on. Meaning, if all of you want to know, I was born in Perlis as a Malay Muslim. My father is a Muslim, my family and siblings are Muslims. My own family members are also Muslims. So, I feel the issue of the status of my religion does not arise at all. That should not be questioned at all. If you want to ask me that just based on the Internet and SMS, that is why I do not want to entertain this kind of things. This is a sensitive matter. But my father, my children, my siblings are Muslims. So there is no need for this question to arise. And I have never, in this country or in any other parts of the world, that I have applied to renounce Islam. And I have never thought about doing that. That was what surprised me. But I don't want you to leave now that I have answered you.

Q: The perception still persists because in the recent press statement there was nothing from you to say you are still a Muslim. That is what people want to know. A: If I say that, if I say I am a Muslim from the very beginning, you mean that's the end of the story?

Q: Yes. That's it. Another thing, can you say the Kalimah Syahadah now? Everyone will keep quiet after this. A: Did your mother ever ask you to say it? My father has never asked me to say it until now. Because we have said it many times, we say it everytime in our prayers.

Q: Then only this matter will not arise again later.
A: No. Cannot. I am not going to do that. This is not the Judgment Day for me to be questioned like this. When the day comes, nobody will know where we will end up going. It is not a matter of saying it or trying to please your ears. (Bukan atas ungkapan itu atau bukan atas nak bagi sedap telinga)

Q: Our intention is only to clarify things for the public. A: I understand. If you see me in Langkawi, we would understand each other even better. My work is related to many people, including those from overseas. Obviously, I would always be hanging out with the white men. So, when I sit with them, people will say I am not a Muslim. It's tough on me.

Q: Where are you based now?
A: I am based in Langkawi, as in my responsibilities. My home, as in family, is in KL. And those are the two places that I have been, other than going on short trips on business.

Hamid: I would like to explain, for everyone of us, as long as one does not renounce his religion, he remains in his original religion. There is no need for one to repeat whether he is Muslim or not.

Q (to Azhar): On the SMS incident, are you going to take action against anyone? A: That is already under police investigation. When the SMS first came out I did not lodge any police report. But when the matter was prolonged, I felt it was better for me to make a police report to protect myself. Now we just wait for the police report and any further development. I cannot say anything else as of now.

Q: Are you saying that what is contained in the SMS is a fitnah (accusation /defamation /slander)? A: I am not used to using that kind of word. I would never say anything if I see someone wearing shorts, or drinking in a coffee shop or in a bar. That is his personal matter. We should take care of our own selves. If we want to question whether one is a Muslim or a Christian, it would be tough. But all I know, my responsibility, my stand, my faith is in Allah. So, don't question me now and I am only living my daily life in Malaysia according to the Syariah teaching and country's regulations. I have never committed any offence. If you want to ask whether one is a Muslim or not, it is better for you to ask the rapists. That is better. Don't ask me that. I was only doing my job in langkawi. I have never disturbed anybody. It is the others who always disturbed me.

Husainay: The conclusion is, Azhar is still a Muslim. I think we better make it clear. So, let us end this session.

Q: Do you think the SMS has something to do with your business relations? Azhar: I don't know. I will wait and see the outcome of the police investigation. If I can get hold of the finding, perhaps I can think of what to do next. But now I do not want to think about it. Now I just want to stay to follow the assembly and later go back to Langkawi to continue with my work. But I will be wearing my shorts. Is it okay with you guys if I wear shorts? Hamid: But we must be clear that in Islam, faith is one aspect, while behaviour is another aspect. They are not inter-connected. So if a citizen was caught stealing, he is guilty and considered a criminal, but his citizenship remains. It will not be abolished. Islam is also like that. If a Muslim does not practise the Islamic teaching, that is another story, but his faith in Islam remains. It will not be affected.

Q: After this, would your daily life be affected? Azhar: No, it will not affect me. It is just that sometimes, I think, is our country this bad to the extent I have to take action to protect my family? Should that happen, I would be very much shocked. But for me, I am too engrossed with my responsibilities. I have never worked but I have a lot of responsibilities. And at this opportunity, I would like to say, being the unofficial ambassador of Langkawi, I would like to invite you all to come to Langkawi if you want to go for a holiday. Then you can see me in shorts.

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MB: Mufti briefed group about conversion claims ; from STAR

KUALA LUMPUR: Perak Mufti Datuk Harussani Zakaria had only informed a group of people at a closed-door meeting at the state mosque of the allegations that some Muslims had converted to Christianity, said Datuk Seri Tajol Rosli Ghazali.
The Perak Mentri Besar said the objective of the meeting had been to control young people so that they would not go astray.
“But somebody picked up one of the examples given and cited Datuk Azhar Mansor. The Mufti is not involved in the SMS but he might be the reason for the SMS being spread,” he said yesterday after attending the Umno pre-council briefing by the party president at PWTC.
Zainuddin: Says issuing factually wrong statements could lead to public outrage

A widely circulated SMS caused quite a furore last week because it alleged that national mariner Datuk Azhar Mansor was an apostate, and would lead a ceremony to baptise a group of students at the Church of Our Lady Lourdes in Ipoh on Nov 5.

This turned out to be false and the supposed baptism was in fact the Holy Communion for 100 Catholic children.Tajol Rosli said the mufti had explained to reporters on Sunday what had actually taken place. “It's up to the police to investigate,” he said.
Information Minister Datuk Seri Zainuddin Maidin said that many people suspected Harussani had sent the recent offensive SMS because he had previously made claims of Muslims turning apostates.
He said earlier this year the mufti told a Malay daily that over 100,000 Muslims in the country had converted to other religions.
“So, when the recent SMS surfaced many believed it had come from him,” the minister added. The mufti had claimed then that the number of Muslims who converted was provided to him by a group of professionals and students.
The Malaysian Islamic Development Department (Jakim), later denied the figures, alleging they were obtained through unreliable sources.
Zainuddin said: “The problems that arose from the SMS and how Harussani was made to look like its sender, should serve as a lesson to all those in senior positions.”
He said civil servants in positions of authority should refrain from making statements unless the facts had been verified by the relevant government agencies.
They should be able to distinguish matters that are sensitive in nature, he said, adding that issuing factually wrong statements could lead to public outrage.
Zainuddin said they should not blame the media for running their inaccurate statements because the media would regard them as reliable sources of information.
“The onus is on the government officials to make sure that they have all the facts because they have all the resources, including the police, to check if the facts they received are true,” he said.

Sisters In Islam programme manager Norhayati Kaprawi said the Perak Mufti should have kept the information of the alleged baptism ceremony to himself if he had doubts about the authenticity and validity of the claims.
“He should have kept the information to himself and submitted it only to the police for further investigation.
“He should not have disseminated the unverified outrageous claims to other Muslim NGOs in a mosque,” she said in a statement here yesterday.

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LETTERS: Perak mufti shares blame for rumour mongering

Norhayati Hj Kaprawi Nov 14, 06 4:23pm

We refer to the malaysiakini report Malicious SMS - ISA the last resort.
Sisters in Islam wishes to highlight the impact of the scare-mongering tactics by some sectors of society. The Perak mufti should have learned from past experiences the danger of disseminating unverified information especially regarding contentious issues such as apostasy.

If the mufti had the tiniest of doubts about the authenticity and validity

of the woman's claims, he should have kept the information to himself and

submitted the information only to the police for further investigation. He

should not have disseminated the unverified outrageous claims to other

Muslim NGOs in a mosque.
He should, in fact, remind Muslims that the Qur'an in surah An-Nur (24:11)
strongly warns against the raising and spreading of rumours and malicious
This is not the first time the mufti has made careless statements and allegations. Some of his highly controversial statements highlighted in the media were:

* 21 April 2005 - called for HIV/Aids and bird flu carriers be isolated on an island to ensure they do not infect others.

* February 2006 - claimed that 100,000 - 250,000 Muslims had apostatised themselves. To date, he has not been able to substantiate these claims, except to merely state that these were obtained from 'reliable sources'.

* March 2006 - the Perak Mufti Department's official website carried a poll on the controversial caricatures of Prophet Muhammad issue, asking visitors for their views on the 'most appropriate action to be taken against those

who insult the Prophet Muhammad. One of the choices given was to 'hunt and kill them'. The mufti, however, denied any knowledge and responsibility over the provocative poll.

* June 2006 - said that joint celebrations, such as Kongsi Raya, can erode the faith of Muslims.
As one of the Muslim leaders in Malaysia, the Perak mufti should be conscious against any act that can sow disunity and ill-will amongst the multi-religious communities in Malaysia. Again, we urge the authorities to take this matter very seriously before it becomes the undoing of a nation that has strived to provide a space for all Malaysians.Sisters in Islam also regrets the statements issued by the inspector-general of police and the deputy internal security minister on the possible use of the ISA against those responsible for disseminating inciteful SMSes.

As part of the Gabungan Mansuhkan ISA (Anti-ISA Movement), SIS calls for the repeal of the draconian Act which provides for detention without trial. More important is the need for the authorities to foster rational, informed and civil public engagement on contentious issues of national interest.

The writer is programme manager, Sisters in Islam.

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'Baptism' message started by woman, claims Perak Mufti

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Identity of SMS sender revealed;13 Nov 2006; Mimi Syed Yusof

IPOH: Perak Mufti Datuk Seri Harussani Zakaria has revealed the identity of the sender of the text message which he received alleging that a group of Muslims would be baptised at a church in Silibin here on Nov 5. It was a woman and she sent the message on Oct 21 at 9.33am, he said. He said the woman, whom he named, had claimed that she studied at the International Islamic University and Al-Azhar University in Cairo. She said that on her return from Egypt, she was doing social work with missionaries and had converted. However, she claimed she had returned to Islam. Harussani said the woman and her husband came to his house on Oct 22 to confirm the substance in the message.

"After she left, I informed the police and the Special Branch," he said at his house yesterday. Harussani, whose name has been implicated in the SMS issue, said he did not spread the text message as had been alleged by certain quarters who had used his name in the SMS and the call for it to be passed around. He said he had brought up the issue of the SMS during a meeting with members of non-governmental organisations on Nov 2 called by the Islamic Congress committee to discuss its Dec 23-24 international convention. The meeting was held at the conference room of the state mosque. "Because of my capacity as adviser to the congress, I was asked for my view on what would be the topics of discussion at the convention," he said. "I called on the need for Muslims to strengthen their faith and belief in Islam as this was being eroded, especially among the younger people. I had given examples of how our faith and belief had been poisoned through the Internet. "I also touched on the SMS issue and the information which I had received from the woman, but I had also stressed to the members present that before we act we must have proof. "I also said I had informed the police and that we should wait for the authorities to investigate the matter." He said on Nov 3 he was informed by certain members of NGOs who had attended the meeting that they would hold a peaceful protest against the alleged baptism. "Again I informed them not to be stupid and to allow the police to investigate first. However, they did not listen," he said.

"When I was in Syria, I heard about the commotion at the church. I am sad and disappointed at the turn of events. "As a mufti, I believe I was carrying out my duty and responsibility to inform the necessary people of the intended baptism. "I did not spread the SMS or call on the people to protest. All I said was for us to be careful and to let the authorities investigate." He said if anyone was to receive similar text messages on such issues, he should forward them to the police and the authorities instead of spreading them. He said he met the Sultan of Perak yesterday and had explained the situation to him. "The Sultan is not angry. He is satisfied with my explanation. "I also met Perak police chief Datuk Abdul Aziz Bulat yesterday (Saturday) between 5pm and 9pm and told him everything."

== = = = = = = == = = = Compare the ABOVE NST account with the STAR account (BELOW) and spot the differences

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: 13th Nov 06; 1:05pm

The “INNOCENT” Perak Mufti Received ORIGINAL Message Convened MEETING with NGO To CATCH “Red Handed” the “MUSLIM” CONVERTS in a CHURCH? What was his real Intentions? Why can’t he called up the Church and confirm? NO Interfaith Dialogue?

This is interesting revealation from th perak Mufti, reported in the STAR, Nov 12 06.
Is this woman an “infiltrator”? Coverted and reconvert? Spying on the Christian missionary to convert people? Do you think the Mufti has done the right thing? Adding “salt & fire” to make message more “tastier” or appealing or setting the stage to trap the so call “converts” red-handed? There are so many possibilities. If he is more responsible instead of just “to remind Muslims of the threats facing Islam today” he could have just make a call to the Church (or is it haram?); and nip the problem in the bud to diffuse the threats to peace. ONLY after the incident he asked “leave it to the police to investigate
One wonders how many SMSs went around. Did he actually show the “ORIGINAL” the one he received (see below, cannot be deciphered) to the Police? Is the widely publicised one the ONLY one?

ABOVE: SMS ALERT: Mufti Harussani showing the message (3 lines only and CANNOT be deciphered) on the supposed baptism. He said the woman who sent him the message also met him and brought along documents to back up her claim; BELOW: the publicised one (see translation below)
'Baptism' message started by woman, claims Perak Mufti;By MAZNI MUSTAFA;

IPOH: Perak Mufti Datuk Seri Harussani Zakaria has named a woman in her 40s as the originator of a text message that claimed a group of Muslims was going to be baptised at a church here last month. He claimed the woman is a graduate of the International Islamic University, who later studied at the Al-Azhar University in Cairo. Harussani: ‘What I revealed was meant to stay within the confines of the meeting’ “Upon her return, she joined a missionary group that carried out social work. She later converted to Christianity and now claims to have returned to Islam,” he told reporters at his home in Kampung Melayu Gunung Rapat here yesterday. Harussani said he had had an audience with the Sultan of Perak, Sultan Azlan Shah, to explain his stand on the issue. “The Sultan is happy and satisfied with my explanation,” he said of his 9am meeting with the Ruler. The SMS, which was widely circulated last week, had alleged that national mariner Datuk Azhar Mansor would lead a ceremony to baptise a group of students at the Church of Our Lady of Lourdes in Silibin here on Nov 5. It was later found that the supposed baptism was an event to mark the first Holy Communion for about 100 Catholic children. Harussani said the woman had sent him an SMS message on Oct 21 to give the time and place of the alleged baptism. He asked her to meet him at his house. “She came with her husband a day before Hari Raya,” he said, adding that she brought along compact discs and documents that purportedly disclosed that Azhar would be at the church to baptise the Malay students. Harussani claimed he handed all the information to the police and the Special Branch for their investigation. He said he raised his concerns over the allegations with representatives of Muslim non-governmental organisations at the state mosque here on Nov 2.What I revealed was meant to stay within the confines of the meeting. I did not know that those present would pass the word around. It was never my intention to create chaos. As the mufti (Muslim scholar who interprets Syariah laws), I have the responsibility to remind Muslims of the threats facing Islam today,” he said. SMS ALERT: Harussani showing the message on the supposed baptism. He said the woman who sent him the message also met him and brought along documents to back up her claim.

“I heard about the commotion at the church while I was in Syria. I am saddened and disappointed by the turn of events. “I was only carrying out my duty as a mufti to inform the necessary people of the supposed baptism,” he said, stressing that he had not spread the SMS or told people to protest. Asked about the anxiety and tension the SMS had stirred, Harussani said: “What they did (circulating it) was wrong. Why can’t they leave it to the police to investigate?” Harussani said he gave his statement to the police on Saturday during a four-hour meeting with state police chief Deputy Comm Datuk Aziz Bulat and Special Branch chief Senior Asst Comm (II) Dr Ab Rahman Ismail at his house. When contacted, Inspector-General of Police Tan Sri Musa Hassan said police would investigate the mufti’s statement. “We will act accordingly,” he added.
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UPDATE 6: 11th Nov 06

Azhar Still A Muslim, Says Shahidan ; November 10, 2006 23:20 PM

KANGAR, Nov 10 (Bernama) -- Menteri Besar Perlis Datuk Seri Shahidan Kassim, who had a meeting with Datuk Azhar Mansor at his office here Friday, said the national sailor was still a Muslim. "He still performs his daily prayers and also performed the Tarawih prayers the whole of last Ramadan and follows the teachings of Islam. How can it be said that he has changed his religion?,"

Shahidan told reporters after the meeting with Azhar late Friday afternoon. Also present during the one-hour long meeting was the Perlis Mufti, Dr Mohd Asri Zainal Abidin. However, Azhar declined to meet journalists waiting outside the Menteri Besar's office. Azhar was named in the SMS message that was floated in Perak last week that alleged 300 Muslims would be baptised by him at a church in Ipoh. As a result of the SMS, about 1,000 Muslims gathered at the church in Jalan Silibin to check the matter out forcing police to be called in to control the situation. The matter is being investigated under the Sedition Act 1948. In a press conference Thursday, Azhar who turns 50 in February denied any involvement in what was alleged in the SMS. Shahidan said that the presence of the national hero, who made a successful solo voyage in his "Jalur Gemilang" yacht in 1999, in Langkawi was because he had come to celebrate the Hari Raya with friends and relatives. Azhar now resides in Australia. "Usually he will drop by to see me during Hari Raya, but maybe this time because he was busy with his business in Langkawi, he could only come today," said Shahidan. Shahidan said that the Mufti would issue a statement on the meeting at the latest by Monday. He said that in the meeting, Azhar, who wore a white shirt and jeans, repeatedly stressed that he and his wife were still Muslims.He said that Azhar saw it as a challenge and a test of Allah the insinuations being made against him.
= = = = = = = (End update 6)

UPDATE 5: 10th Nov 06; 8.00 am

ORIGINAL SENDER SMS TRACED; Police Still Investigating & SULTAN PERAK Briefed on Situation. PERAK MUFTI Not Involved but He Had NOT Done Enough To Diffuse Situation
The police must be praised for being able to trace the original sender of the SMS that caused so many problems in Ipoh concerning this “conversion of Muslims” in a Church. Apparently the Perak Mufti is NOT directly involved in the SMS business but he has NOT done enough to alleviate the so called fears of the Muslim. When the SMS was circulating at its height he should have defused the situation by sending out his own “order” and assured the Muslims in Perak that there was NO truth in the SMS. Instead he chose to remain silent and allow things to develop. Bernama’s reports on the number of people that went to the church to “demonstrate” vary. One gives the number as 600 and the other 1000. From pictures probably a “few” hundreds if we can count.
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Original Sender Of "Baptism SMS" Traced; November 09, 2006 21:13 PM

IPOH, Nov 9 (Bernama) --Police have traced the original sender of the SMS (short-messaging-service) message claiming that sailor Datuk Azhar Mansor was to baptise a group of Muslims at a church in Ipoh last Sunday. Menteri Besar Datuk Seri Tajol Rosli Ghazali said police were still investigating the case implicating the sailor, hailed a national hero after his solo trip around the world in 1999. He stressed that Perak Mufti Datuk Seri Harussani Zakaria was not involved in spreading the SMS message although his name got a mention in the message by the original sender. Speaking to reporters after a meeting with senior officers of the Perak Islamic Religious Department (JAIP) here Thursday, Tajol Rosli said that police were investigating the case under the Sedition Act 1948. He also said that an investigation carried out by JAIP found the allegations that some Malay students of the Ungku Omar Polytechnic here had converted to Christianity to be untrue. He said that JAIP had been investigating apostasy among Muslims for some time as Harussani had also issued a memorandum on it to the Rulers Council. Police would also be meeting Harussani who is scheduled to return from Syria Friday, he said.

On the meeting between Sultan Azlan Shah and Inspector-General of Police Tan Sri Musa Hassan at Istana Kinta Wednesday, Tajol Rosli said it was a courtesy call on the Perak ruler. Musa also informed Sultan Azlan that the police would be meeting Harussani to discuss the investigation into the SMS message, he said. Perak Police Chief Datuk Abdul Aziz Bulat could not be reached for comment but it is understood that police have roped in six people to assist in their investigation into the case . Last Sunday, about 1,000 Muslims from political parties and non-governmental organisations (NGOs) gathered outside the Silibin church in Ipoh to check out the authenticity of the SMS message.
= = = = = = =

Azhar Gives Statement To Police On Baptism Issue – IGP; November 09, 2006 21:59 PM PUTRAJAYA, Nov 9 (Bernama) -- Police have recorded a statement from national mariner Datuk Azhar Mansor who is linked to the SMS on attempts by certain groups to baptise Muslims at a church in Perak on Sunday. Inspector-General of Police Tan Sri Musa Hassan said his statement was recorded to assist police in their investigations to find out who sent the offensive SMS which touched on religious sensitivities. So far, seven people, suspected of sending the SMS, have been called in for questioning, he said.

"I'm still waiting for the outcome of investigations before proposing our recommendations to the Attorney-General," he told reporters. Wednesday, Musa had an audience with the Sultan of Perak, Sultan Azlan Shah, to brief him on the progress of investigations into the issue and on the tension the SMS had caused between two religious groups in the state. The SMS, which has been circulating since last Thursday, had alleged that Azhar would lead some 600 Muslim students to be baptised at a church in Silibin, Ipoh. The SMS also alleged that Perak Mufti Datuk Seri Harussani Zakaria had announced on Nov 4 during a programme at the State Mosque that the baptism would take place. On Sunday, several hundred Muslims gathered at the Our Lady of Lourdes Church from 7.30am. It was later revealed that the church was only having its first Holy Communion for 98 children. Police are probing the case under the Sedition Act 1948 after receiving three reports from the police, Perak Umno Youth and the church. In LANGKAWI, Azhar said he was prepared to meet Perlis Menteri Besar Datuk Seri Shahidan Kassim and State Mufti Datuk Alim Panglima Mat Jahya Hussin on the SMS issue that he had renounced Islam.????? (Note: SMS was on Coversion by Azhar!!!!)

= = = = = = = END UPDATE 5
Azhar as in 1999
ABOVE & BELOW: File Pictures (circa 1999) from AsianYatching. Read more here during his recognition & Read more here for the HERO'S WELCOME

UPDATE 4: 8th Nov 06

National Mariner Keeps Mum Over Religious Status November 08, 2006 01:12 AM

LANGKAWI, Nov 8 (Bernama) -- National mariner Datuk Azhar Mansor Tuesday declined to reply to reporters' queries on his religious status at a press conference at a restaurant in Telaga Harbour Park in Pantai Kok here. He said he wanted the authorities to complete their investigation into an allegation spread by short messaging service (SMS) linking him to the baptism of a number of Muslims at a church in Ipoh, Perak, last Sunday. Following the SMS, a group of Muslims and members of non-governmental organisations gathered at a church in Ipoh to verify the claim. Azhar said it was hoped that the investigation would reveal the agenda as well as the objective of those who had sent the SMS that attracted the attention of many people, particularly Muslims. "Such accusations have been hurled at me since I started sailing in 1999. I hope that after the outcome of the investigation is announced, it will clear my name and would not be linked to such issues any more," he said. "The matter (of baptism) that happened in Ipoh may have its blessings," said Azhar, who has three children and would turn 50 in February next year. He said he would keep to his pledge to issue a statement in the near future.

Azhar became famous after successfully sailing solo around the world in the "Jalur Gemilang" sail boat in 1999.= = = = = = =

ISA Can Be Used Against SMS Rumour Mongers; November 07, 2006 19:42 PM
KUALA TERENGGANU, Nov 7 (Bernama) -- Those involved in spreading rumours via
the short-messaging service (SMS) that several hundred Malays would be converted at a church in Ipoh last Sunday could be hauled up under the Internal Security Act (ISA). Deputy Minister of Internal Security Datuk Johari Baharum said the government viewed the matter seriously and would not hesitate to use the ISA against those responsible. "The incident in Perak recently is serious as it could lead to unrest. We will not hesitate to use the ISA if the situation turns for the worse and becomes chaotic.

"This is not good for national security, especially when Malaysia is made up of people of many races and religious backgrounds," he said at a Hari Raya gathering by Terengganu police, here Tuesday. Asked whether a "Datuk" was involved, Mohd Johari said: "Nowadays, there are many Datuks and not all are good. We do not care if he is a Datuk or not. If he is responsible, then action will be taken." He added that the government's move to register all prepaid mobile phone users would make it easier for the police to track down the culprits responsible for spreading the SMS. Mohd Johari who was on his first visit to the state since becoming Deputy Minister of Internal Security said a new police contingent building costing RM80 million was being planned for Terengganu. –
= == == = = = =
Five People Quizzed Over SMS; November 07, 2006 13:11 PM
IPOH, Nov 7 (Bernama) -- Perak police have questioned five people over the dissemination of information via the short-messaging service (SMS) that several hundred Malays were to be baptised at a church in Silibin last Sunday. Perak police chief Datuk Abdul Aziz Bulat said police had recorded their statements and were still searching for a few more whom the police believed could help with their investigation into the case.
"We will conduct a thorough investigation from all angles before submitting the findings to the public prosecutor," he told reporters after attending a monthly gathering of the Perak police chief here Tuesday.

= = = = END Update 4

: 7th Nov 06

Azhar’s religious status as Muslim under probe; Tuesday November 7, 2006;

KANGAR: Perlis Religious Adviser Datuk Mat Jahya Husein will investigate and meet with national mariner Datuk Azhar Mansor who is alleged to have renounced Islam and is now residing in Australia. Mentri Besar Datuk Seri Shahidan Kassim said the outcome of the investigation would be released to the public to confirm the status of Azhar's faith, according to Bernama. “Apostasy is included in the law of every state and the state government will ensure that it is investigated thoroughly,” he told reporters. “The allegation involves a citizen of Perlis and concerns the individual’s religion. “We have to investigate it thoroughly as we fear that we would be accused of not doing our job and not paying attention to such matters.” Azhar, who was in Langkawi yesterday, said he would respond to the allegations after the authorities had completed their investigations. Azhar's brother Azham, 56, said it was slanderous for anyone to suggest that Azhar had converted to Christianity. “These are all lies,” he said. I am sure, and I know my brother. He is a Muslim. Please, don’t disturb him anymore,” he was quoted as saying in mStar, the Malay news portal of The Star.

November 06, 2006 22:30 PM
PM Calls For Tough Action Against Those Who Sent Misleading SMS
From Mohd Kamel Othman

ISLAMABAD, Nov 6 (Bernama) -- Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi, Monday called for tough action against the people who had sent out a misleading short messaging service (SMS), Sunday with racial and religious overtones.

"They must be penalised severely whatever their intention may have been," he told Malaysian journalists here. Abdullah, who is also Internal Security Minister, said he has directed the police to investigate because those who sent the SMS harboured evil and mischievous intentions to arouse anger and reaction that could lead to racial and religious tension. "I have said all along that religion is a sensitive issue and cannot be made fun of. It cannot be used to scare or shock people or for fun. This is not a joke," he said. He said action must be taken whatever the intention was of the sender or senders because the SMS has been circulated.

Abdullah was asked to comment on the circulation of an SMS yesterday that a number of Muslims would be baptised at a church in Ipoh. Following the SMS, a group of Muslims including representatives of several non-governmental organisations gathered at the compound of the church to seek verification. Abdullah said he spoke with Inspector-General of Police Tan Sri Musa Hassan, Sunday and was informed that the SMS message was misleading and no Malays were baptised at the Ipoh church. The prime minister advised the people not to entertain such SMS and also not to circulate it either."The receivers of such messages are sometimes eager to pass them on to their friends. As such, the public helps in their dissemination. That is the problem. They do not have to pass on the SMS," he said.

Commenting on the publication of articles on sex in an English newspaper (MALAY MAIL)over the weekend, Abdullah said it was improper to carry such stories in newspapers in Malaysia. "We have to know that such matters are not discussed openly in our society. Therefore, we must understand and not publish such stories," he said. The people and country do not stand to lose anything if such articles are not published, he said.

====End Update 3

UPDATE 2: 6TH Nov 06;
And look who are the rumors mongers (using SMS) but the influential religious people themselves. From the messages, names and telephone numbers were gleaned and they traced back to them and rightly the Information Minister Datuk Seri Zainuddin admonished them by “advising them” (See below). He also posed the question “what benefit and pride Muslims derived by relating that 100,000 or 200,000 Muslims had embraced Christianity” Nothing to do with pride and benefit; It is the F E A R;

Now will stern action be taken against them as advocated By Datuk Najib? See Below. Just wait & see.

Religious Leaders Advised Not To Spread Messages Without Verification; November 06, 2006 19:16 PM

MELAKA, Nov 6 (Bernama) -- Information Minister Datuk Seri Zainuddin Maidin, Monday appealed to influential religious leaders against disseminating sensitive messages that can lead to security problems without verifying their authenticity with the right people. He said the dissemination of rumours via the short messaging service (SMS) could spark alarming religious misconceptions. "An SMS that calls on people to gather for a demonstration similar to what happened in Ipoh yesterday is a mischievous, irresponsible and anti-national act," he told reporters after receiving the Darjah Gemilang Seri Melaka (DGSM) award carrying the "Datuk Seri" title conferred on him in conjunction with the 68th birthday of Melaka Yang Dipertua Negeri Tun Khalil Yaakob, here.
Zainuddin was commenting on a report on the circulation of an SMS that there was going to be the baptism of a number of Muslims at a church in Ipoh, Sunday.

ABOVE & BELOW: The religious leaders & NGOs representatives at the Church checking & the FRU kept watch

Following the circulation of the SMS, a group of Muslims, including representatives of several non-governmental organisations, gathered at the compound of the church to verify the matter, which turned out to be the baptism of 110 Indian children. "It is important that we learn from yesterday's case that we should not be easily taken in by rumours spread via the SMS, particularly to fan religious sentiments.

ABOVE & BELOW: What was happening inside the Church but to pray?

”But this matter arose when the religious people themselves believed the baseless claim that 200,000 Muslims in Malaysia had embraced Christianity," he said, expressing regret that the claim had been repeated often. Zainuddin asked what benefit and pride Muslims derived by relating that 100,000 or 200,000 Muslims had embraced Christianity. "What is the benefit? You are only helping with the propaganda of other religions." He said as responsible people, they should raise issues based on facts and not assumptions or information derived from the Internet that were baseless. Replying to questions from reporters, Zainuddin said it was up to the relevant authorities to haul up the religious leaders said to have been responsible for circulating the message. "When occupying a high and influential position, we must speak based on facts. Only then will the people respect us and there is credibility," he said.
Zainuddin said Sunday's incident had caused a predicament for many quarters, including the Information Ministry, police and the security authorities, and could pose a threat to national stability.
= = = = = = = = =

Najib Wants Firm Action On Malays To Embrace Christianity SMS Senders; November 06, 2006 15:33 PM
JOHOR BAHARU, Nov 6 (Bernama) -- Deputy Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak wants firm action taken against those who spread short messaging service (SMS) information and e-mail that a group of Malays would be "embracing Christianity" in Ipoh yesterday. Najib said he had already spoken to Inspector-General of Police Tan Sri Musa Hassan on the matter and wanted the authorities to conduct an immediate investigation.

"Firm action must be taken against those responsible because the SMS message is dangerous as it can lead to racial conflict and create a tense situation in the country," he told reporters after closing the Johor Umno Convention here Monday. Najib who touched on the SMS in his speech earlier, regarding the message as an incitement, said: "We must find out who is behind the SMS message." The SMS and e-mail said that "several Malays will be baptised by Datuk Azhar Mansor" at a church in Ipoh. The SMS was so widespread that more than 1,000 Muslims throughout the state gathered in protest outside the church yesterday. Azhar's elder brother, Azham, also denied rumours that the national mariner was an apostate and was residing in Australia. Azham considered the SMS and e-mail as pure lies. "The SMS was a lie," he said. Najib said those who were said to have embraced Christianity were in fact a group of some 100 people from the Indian community. In his speech, Najib also spoke on the Inter-Faith Commission (IFC), which was raised earlier by Johor Umno Liaison Committee chairman Datuk Abdul Ghani Othman who considered the IFC's formation was against the Federal Constitution which had enshrined Islam as the official religion. "This IFC, if its becomes a reality, will have powers that are beyond religious matters including the affairs of the Syariah Court. As such, the proposal to form IFC must be rejected altogether and not merely be postponed," said Abdul Ghani. Najib said Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi had announced that the IFC's formation had been postponed. "That is the diplomatic way but what it means is that the IFC is not on. ”The sentiments were the same during discussions by the Umno Supreme Council. Umno is the defender of Islam and no one must try to violate its sanctity." Najib added that Umno's struggles had always been based on the principle that "Umno itu Melayu dan Melayu itu Umno" (Umno and the Malays are one).
"As such, our struggles and policies centred around Malays and Islam. Umno was responsible for not only making Islam the religion of the federation but also a complete way of life and ensured that the policies are in line with Islam." He said when the Malays and Islam could be accepted as one, only then the role of the party in achieving independence and continued peace and harmony without diluting the Malays and Islam as the "core of the nation" could be appreciated. Najib said although the Malays were "the core of the nation", it did not mean that they could not share power with other races or deny them the opportunity. "Far from it. We have always been considerate to the other races but they must also not deny the Malays their rights," he added.
= = = = = = =

Police Call Up Several Individuals To Assist In SMS Probe

IPOH, Nov 6 (Bernama) -- Police will continue to call up several individuals to help in the probe into the dissemination of short-messaging-service (SMS) notes that claimed Muslims were being baptised in a church here. Perak police chief Datuk Abdul Aziz Bulat said investigations were being carried out under the Sedition Act and the first individual had already been called up this morning for an interview. "We will call up several people who were clearly mentioned in the SMS and also based on the (telephone) number (obtained). We are tracing the source of the SMS," he told reporters at the Perak Darul Ridzuan building, here Monday. Following the dissemination of the SMS notes, a group of Muslims including representatives of several non-governmental organisations (NGOs) had gathered within the church grounds to check on the baptism which actually involved 110 children of Indian origin. He said three police reports had been lodged yesterday afternoon concerning the incident by the police, Perak Umno Youth and the church concerned. It is learnt that police would continue to monitor gatherings at the church for as long as it is deemed necessary.

Meanwhile, Menteri Besar Datuk Seri Tajol Rosli Ghazali hoped that such incidents would not be exaggerated in future as it was a sensitive matter and could lead to unrest. "We are living in a peaceful multi-racial society. There must be mutual respect between one another and between the people of various races and religions," he said. He also praised Abdul Aziz, who had only assumed the post of Perak police chief recently, and the police for their wisdom in handling the incident.

= = = = = =End Update2

The false SMS stating that 600 Politeknik Ungku Omar "Muslim" students from Jalan Dairy, Ipoh had been converted to Christians and several Malays will be converted in a Church in Jalan Silibin, IPOH by Dato Azhar Mansur caused some uneasyness in the church as Muslims were were told to gather there by 8.00 am to protest. The Police took the necessary precautions and stationed the Federal reserve Unit there from 7 am till 1pm. More than a 1000 people turned up from various parts of Perak and other towns.
The "Muslims" coming out of the Church turned out to be Indians. Police chief ask people NOT to listen to these rumours, but the Perak Pusat Khidmat Islam secretary Mohd Nazri Sahad was ACTUALLY there (i.e. he believed in the SMS message) as he said he was there "to check if there was any truth to the message".

Perak CPO Regrets Irresponsible Acts Of SMS Senders; November 05, 2006 17:14 PM

IPOH, Nov 5 (Bernama) -- Perak Police Chief Datuk Abdul Aziz Bulat Sunday expressed regret over the irresponsible acts by individuals who spread racial and sensitive religious messages via the short-messaging-system (SMS). He said their acts could jeopardise social and religious harmony in the country.

As such, Abdul Aziz advised the public to be wary of such messages and avoid from being easily influenced by them. He was speaking to reporters here today when asked to comment on rumours of an SMS message regarding a baptism ceremony at a church for a group of "Muslims".

ABOVE: The offending False SMS:
"Sejumlah melayu akan dibaptiskan oleh Dato Azhar Mansor esok di Gereja Silibin Ipoh. Seramai 600 pelajar Politeknik Ungku Omar Ipoh telah masuk Kristian. Pendedahan oleh Mufti Perak ptg td di masjid Negeri. Pagi esok 8 pg dmntrasi bantahan besaran depan gereja Silibin. Dtg bramai2 [obscured text] NGO2 Sebarkan Demi agama"

Translated into English, it says :

A number of Malays will be baptised by Dato Azhar Mansor tomorrow at the Ipoh Silibin Church. A total of 600 students of the Ungku Omar Polytechnic in Ipoh have converted to Christianity. Exposé by the Mufti of Perak last afternoon at the State Mosque. A large demonstration will be held in protest at 8 am tomorrow morning in front of the Silibin church. Turn up in numbers [obscured text] NGOs. Distribute this for our religion's sake

ABOVE & BELOW: The curious crowds were wondering what the police were doing at the Church.

ABOVE & BELOW: The curious protesters who were roped in and went to the Church

As a result of the message, several representatives of a non-governmental organisation gathered at the church's premises only to find out that the ceremony was for 110 Indian children. "We do not know what prompted the sending of the SMS. Perhaps there are some people who want to disrupt the country's harmony," he told reporters when met at the church premises.

ABOVE & BELOW: The FRU were at hand to ensure the protesters were orderly in their show of support for the false rumours in the SMS

Abdul Aziz said a Federal Reserve Unit had been stationed there since 7am until 1pm when the crowd adjourned peacefully. He said they would monitor the situation and conduct further investigation into the SMS incident.

Meanwhile, Perak Islamic Religious Department Director (ABOVE) Datuk Jamry Sury said the department would also investigate the case and would take action against the culprit.

ABOVE: Azham Mansur (adik of Dato' Azhar Mansur" confirmed that his brother Dato's Azhar Mansur is "seorang umat Islam sejati"

NB: Dato Azhar Mansur is the famous Malaysian sailor who sailed round the world solo in his yatch. Check out here to find out “Is he also an apostate?” If you have the F A C T S, sent them to him as proof.= = = = = =

UPdate from STAR,

Cops to probe baptism SMS; By CHAN LI LEEN; Monday November 6, 2006

IPOH: The police are investigating a rumour which spread like wildfire through SMS, claiming that a group of Muslims will be baptised at a church here. As a result, a large crowd gathered at the Church of Our Lady of Lourdes in Silibin from 7.30am yesterday to protest against the alleged baptism only to find out that it was actually the first Holy Communion for 98 Indian children. State police chief Deputy Comm Datuk Aziz Bulat said the police would verify how the SMS had started.

There could be some people out there who have a personal agenda to create disharmony among the races,” he said when met at the church. DCP Aziz said the police had also received the text message and had, therefore, placed the Federal Reserve Unit on standby since 7am. He advised the public to be wary of such messages. “Don't accept everything you read or hear as total truth,” he said, adding that he would call on all involved parties to help with the investigation. The protesters, who included members of opposition parties and non-governmental organisations, gathered for some four hours and refused to disperse initially despite warnings from the police. They finally started to leave at 11.20am after Deputy OCPD (II) Supt Lai Yong Heng issued a stern warning. Perak Religious Department director Datuk Jamry Sury, who was present to monitor the situation, said the department would also investigate the incident. “We will take action against the culprit,” he added.

Perak Pusat Khidmat Islam secretary Mohd Nazri Sahad said he was there to check if there was any truth to the message. The police were still on standby at the church last night. Father Fabian Dicom, spokesman for the Catholic Diocese of Penang, which covers Perak, said the church was extremely concerned that a group of people had been sowing ill-will through rumours.

“We are concerned as to how others have come to believe these rumours,” he added. He noted that the incident had also infringed on the church members' right to worship. “The Catholic Church has always believed that dialogue is the best platform to resolve issues and as such is extremely disappointed that there was no attempt whatsoever for dialogue,” he said.

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Blogger PabloPabla said...

I wonder if the culprit will be traced and charged???

9:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Next week:

Public protest in front of bar to protest muslims drinking alcholic drinks.

11:07 AM  
Anonymous my Brother in Law converted said...

Why are they so insecure, if there was really any truth in Muslims converting (like Lina Joy), then what? Will they cause mob riots again? Why is it that we do not see any Christians gathering ala mob style when there are christians converting to Muslim??

This kind of mentality is exactly those which lead to the Bosnia-Herzagovinia Crisis, or have we forgotten already?
Race, Religion are the foremost reasons of conflict affecting the world, if we are truly to overcome this, we must do away with this kind of mentality!

11:18 AM  
Blogger Trashed said...

Ya la, bro in law conv, why always berat sebelah ? When rumour of Malay converting, mob rule is ready to explode but when others convert to Islam, not a big deal.

Respect the individual la.

12:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Greetings brothers! Peace be upon you!

I too share your despair in seeing such developments taking place in our nation especially where it involves instigative reports being sent by way of SMS in this cowardly manner!

Let me share with you my personal thoughts about this phenomenon.

Malaysia's Muslims are a very easily roused lot!

They are mostly people who claim to love their religion and most of us do with every bit of our hearts.

The irony is that it's mostly a case where such devotion to the faith is sadly superficial ..let's say for about 60% of the adherents are trying their best to live up to the tenets of the faith whilst the rest just give lip service to being Muslims.

This is just an off the cuff personal viewpoint of mine after having observing the general Malaysian Muslim population.

We can't be going around interviewing each and every fellow can we?

General observations only.

So, with today's general political atmosphere with the UMNO Malays being at loggerheads with their PAS brethren and trying to outdo the other by championing 'Islamic causes' but which in actual fact are all pure hype and rhetoric, we have this uneasy situation which is more like a tinderbox awaiting ignition in Malaysia!

Islam is being scapegoated for the political aspirations of the few at the top of each party!

Islam is in actual fact a very tolerant, peaceful, way of life that God Almighty Himself, Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala has revealed to us all by way of His Prophets and Messengers from Our Father, the Holy Prophet Adam (peace be upon him) right down to the 124,000 Prophets and Messengers sent to Mankind over the annals of Time!

If you do a study on Islam, you'll find us believing in all the Prophets and Messengers mentioned also in Christianity and Judaism but completing with the teachings of the Final Messenger and Greatest of all of God's Prophets, the Mercy of God for all Mankind, the Prophet Muhammad bin Abdullah, Sallallahu Alaihi Wassallam!

So, in these challenging times, @ the Last Ages, the Muslims are finding each and every prophecy of the Last Messenger being fulfilled and taking place before their very eyes hence making them be defensive and trying to lookout for their faith and fellow Muslims!

Those who gather at such places out of being instigated or goaded into wanting to go protect their kith and kin from the interference of others like the Christian missionaries for example are just the mix and match rubble of some who are genuinely very concerned about such reports, some who are there just out of curiousity and some who are itching for a fight borne out of their ignorance and base tendency to just spoil for a lynching out of their own screwed up selfs!

Same sort of mentality exists in other ethnicities and faiths here.

Not that all who gather ready to riot are a 100% true blue champions of each other's faiths.

Some are mere followers who do not really know what's going on in the first place and are either roped in by the masses or just curious in the first place!

The reality is that unlike other faiths ; Islam is a one way ticket!

You do not have an option to reverse from your attesting that there is no God but Allah the Almighty and that Muhammad is the (Last) Messenger of God!

I wrote about this before; that Islam is not like a club membership where one can get out of if one doesn't like it or doesn't understand what the membership entails!

So, for those who want to be a Muslim, we welcome you by all means and will help you learn about your birthrights in Believing that There's No Other God but Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala and accept that Muhammad the Son of Abdullah is the (Final) Messenger of Allah and that he Muhammad is the Messenger of God sent to you and me and all the rest of Mankind!

Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) @ Prophet Eesa Alaihi Salam ,the Son of Maryam the Virgin is sent ONLY to the Lost House of the Children of Israel as their Messenger of Allah!

So, if you are not a descendant of the Bani Israel, you have no standing to be a follower of Jesus the Messiah @ Eesa Al Masih.

There are so many out there today who are beguiled as to taking the Holy Prophet and Word of God, Nabi Eesa Alaihis Salm to be the Son of God, the Lord Himself and one in 3 etcetera.

It is up to the individual to realise who's who and what he or she really are and to know to whom, one actually must submit to!

It is important to be rational and wise in learning about all these and to just shhot off one's mouth as one pleases adds further to the predicament we find our easily instigated society to be these days!

May the Almighty God guide us all!

Ameen Ya Rabbal Alameen.

Take your time to study and then ; only then should you come to any conclusion ; after realising the Truth!

May Peace be upon you!

1:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to my bro in law conv...
AS GUARANTEED BY THE MALAYSIAN CONSITUTION<=MUST ALLOW EACH AND EVERY INDIVIDUAL THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE THEIR OWN RELIGION..Yes,it's true and also..if u study a lot,this constitution is only valid for the non-muslim,not for the muslim..the 'kind of mentality' that u've said is actually will be happened if there are such a tease in other religion..Just think,why these sms have been spread up like this?This is only will be done by those who are really stupid in order to make all the believers for all religion in the world to have such a conflict like the Bosnia crisis...think deeply,who might be the truly sender for these kind of news??so,this is not about a freedom to choose a religion,but it is about a stupid work that have been done by a jerk...In other words,"kalo layan org bodoh,kite pun bole jadi bodoh jugak"...but,in Islam,we won't tease others when we're not teased by others..those public protest is not such a mob riots like u've said because all this while,we didn't see all the people who attended the any public protest did anything wrong unless gathered in a large group of peoples...this is not a crime,but it is to show how we as muslims protecting our religion..
lastly,try to understand what u're believe in..then u'll try to understand what we're believed in..

10:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whatever u all said.... lets be entirely honest here. We cant deny the fact that its clearly unfair that a muslim cant convert to christianity even at his or her own will, but any individual from any other faith can simply convert to muslim so easily.

Whats even worst is the confusion created... assuming that Malay is actually a religion. Malay is a race group la brader... and Islam is a religion.

So the whole false statement sent through SMS is actually a religous matter and not a racial or ethnic issue.

Thanks a lot for making things worse that it already is...

2:11 PM  
Anonymous fonz said...

Dear bro mahaguru,
You protray a well balanced and logical perspective.However I am curious as to the vivid and atrocicious crimes commited by muslims nowadays so much so the means to kill someone has found a new threshold(Iraq). All who commit them say they are doing it in the name of God.Seems also that most of the major trouble spots in the world seemed to be connected to violence and Islam. This is a stack contradiction to your claim of it being a peaceful religion.Please do not counter this saying that it all in self defence. If every body is reading from the same Koran ,where is the element of killing and voilence coming from? You also commented that Jesus is only for the Jews.Surely not from the Koran I hope. You see the Bible was in existance long before the Koran and as such has to be deemed as original text. In it there is mention of love and forgiveness more times than any other book. Take a walk on the wild side and read it as I have read the Holy Koran.

2:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Malaysian constitution stated that anyone born Malays must be Muslims. What is Demokrasi Berperlembagaan?
I'm sure people have the right to choose their own religion and it should not be be passed down from one generation to the next. It is not hereditary.

2:18 PM  
Blogger BrightEyes said...

Can you believe travelling a couple-hundred km all the way to Ipoh just because of an SMS... only to find out they were actually Indians?

9:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Muslims and their leaders over react a lot of times. They are against Islamphobia. But then they go out and do things like this. and also the muslims can demand for fairness and understanding when they are in a bad situation. But when it is the others, shouts of jihad and someone is target to be hurt/killed.

Where is the dialogue? where is the reasoning? well when one thinks he is far superior than others,no need for dialogue.

looking forward to the next statement by Perak Mufti.

11:26 PM  
Anonymous hafizmk said...

Greetings. Firstly, I live in Ipoh and was shocked by that news (got IM from friends). It is not good making such rumor actually. Hope the one starting the rumor will be punished fairly.
I think it is better if we think wisely and thoroughlly first before making any comments. but anyway, it is good since this blog acts as a portal for us to gain knowledge and understandings about many things, especially religious matter, and also about people's behavior.

I think we are going in circle here. U will not gain proper understanding or knowledge just by reading this post or other post etc. Use everything...we have our 5 given "panca indera" right? so why dont use all to find the truth? Read, listen, observe, act, etc. Thats all. Dont simply condemn other religion. Sometimes, we are asking about things that are really hard to explain and to understand, even to the people in his/her religion itself. Take for example, the War between Sunni and Shiit`e in Iraq. Both are Muslims, but why they fight?This is because of Mazhab.Why Mazhab, go back to history, n so on. Why other religion can join Islam, why Islam cannot join other religion?there are justifications for all that. we just didnt get the right or perfect answers, from the right person, at the right time + right etc ect etc. Study first before spilling out any statement. In addition to that, some things cannot be explained in the way we want, i.e. logic is not always right. Yes, logic conquer most of the brains. But the only thing to counter it, by refrring back to the holy book, religious book n etc. Its all depend on us;what we r holding on?what we believe?

About the case in Ipoh...sometimes, people just have the need and right to love and protect whats he/she believe in. Its all about naturality. Curiosity.Why Islam do not allow its people to convert?because it is one way of showing that Islam is not like Christian, Buddha, Hindu n etc. Thats the rule.

You cannot say "We cant deny the fact that its clearly unfair that a muslim cant convert to christianity even at his or her own will, but any individual from any other faith can simply convert to muslim so easily".Its the choice in the first place. Simple analogy, why you bite "cili" in the first place if u dont want to feel pedas?makan garam tapi nak rasa come man? ready to obey the rules...

About things in Palestin & Iraq, have we been in their position? I bet u dont. Why dont we put ourselves in their current situation, then we can justify to what is happening.

"All who commit them say they are doing it in the name of God." This statement is still debatable. Even in Islam, the scholars are still arguing about it. Dont judge the magnificient KLCC by looking at just tiny little minny 1 cm dirty spot at its wall. But i didnt say its wrong...please..try listening to debates by scholars if u want to know more about Holy Book, Bible, Quran , etc for their comparison. I can suggest u guys. Its fine. I read a lot about Jewish articles, Christian, n etc. I listen to the debates. Its good anyway. At least i can learn about other religion.

Yes, i agree. The issue here is religious issue, plus race a little bit. One thing as an advise, dont simply believe in anything from TV, news,..etc. Politics. U see whats happening now?even the former highest management, the most respected person once, now being despised by his people. Look at the pecah belah. So, think for yourself.


4:20 AM  
Blogger GF12345 said...

Well said mahaguru58 & hafizmk.

3:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

eh, not sure who is more stupid can a (so called) Convert (ie Azhar Mansor) baptise other ppl?

i thought that's the duty of the Father in the church?

religious bigots = morons

4:38 PM  
Anonymous my brother in law converted said...

Your belief in your faith is admirable, peace be with you. The very disturbing fact remains, as an individual, we have the very right to choose. It seems now more than before that in Malaysia, it is very fast becoming the right of a Muslim, or the rights of a non muslim. Lets not even talk about Malay vs Non Malay. The freedom to choose one's religion. Malaysia practises the right to choose your own religion. Why did my brother in Law convert? Was it a love for Islam? The truth is, actually a love for a muslim. Yes he got involved with a muslim girl and the next thing to do is to convert. As did my auntie.
Seeing that this is so, don't you think that there is something contradictory to our consitution, which from the beginning of the birth of 'our' country, was the very belief that this is the freedom accorded to Malaysians?
If not for my faith in my own religion, I would even have converted long ago..for I myself was attracted to a Malay girl. The thing is, I considered many things, and main thing being, belief in Christ.
We all belief in our own religion, the very way, we were each brought up in our years growing up. What happens later remains very much in our FAITH! We as humans must not judge one another, but respect each other in our own way to have that personal space to reflect on one's existence.
The history of mankind will show, that the fall of each empire is the fault of man and man alone. Religion is also a reason...we should not condone such attitudes to displace one another, but allow each other to grow in our own belief without subtle persecutions!

10:09 AM  
Anonymous Jorami Ibni Karakhani said...


9:06 AM  
Anonymous hafizmk said...

Greetings...One thing to ponder.."In Islam, we believe in Qoda` and Qadar, which means God`s decision on anything happening to us, or what've decided on us..already written..But, another statement from Quran says that, we are able to change something if we put some effort on it..we work hard toward that thing we are after.."..Quite confusing right? I mean,some people think that God already decided what will happen to us, so, why do something else, just follow what've been decided. The fact is, (i.e to show that) we have the right to choose actually. God already decide what will happen to us, but, we got the right to choose whether a straight path or the opposite one. Take for example, did anyone know when he is gonna die? what will happen during he/she drives his car? Accident might happen. But, we got the right to choose, we can ensure all safety things being executed properly, we can live in a healthy lifestyle, dont smoke, dont drink, exercise and so on. TQ.

2:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Greetings to all...
First up, props to hafizmk and my-bro-in-law-converted for remaining impartial. Props to mahaguru58's opinion too. I too believe that Islam is a beautiful faith, as lectured to me by a close friend(who has converted to Islam). I wished her the best and I know she will be happy. Personally, I believe that no matter what religion we embrace, we must respect the other's religious choice, no matter what they are. It is all in the Will of God.

However, here's my take on matter:

I am a Catholic from Ipoh and have lived there most of my life. I have heard all kinds of rumours about the conversions Muslims in Ipoh so many times in so many years, but this is the first time I see it go out of control.

Looking at the matter from another point of view, I am most disappointed on how the whole matter is handled. It's not the problem on whether we are allowed to choose our own faith in Malaysia, nor the lack of understanding of the Catholic faith of the SMS sender. It's not even about the mob demonstrating in front of the church. It's not whether if they are a bunch of easily roused people or if they are upholding their own beliefs...... Those fools don't matter at all.

This is NOT the first time rumours like this goes flying around. Keeping conflicts under control is paramount in a multi-religion and multi-racial country. We are capable of keeping the problem down, and controlling the severity of it. I should know, because I have experienced it before. That is why I am surprised to see this can go out of hand.

I am saying this because we now know that all parties of authority already have the facts on hand - report from the mufti, the documents, the originating SMS, the identity originator of the SMS... but nothing is done to keep the fire down in the first place. It is disheartening to see the low sense of urgency to control a situation that can be prevented. Additionally, to learn that the SMS was received 2 weeks before the actual day of baptism even puzzles me - how much time do you need to investigate truthfulness of a simple SMS message? How long do you need to act on a lodged report?

Therefore, if even the smallest basics of society governing is not there and preventive investigations/actions are not taken, then there is absolutely no room to think about the understanding the Islamic faith, the Catholic faith, freedom of religious choice, conversions, apostasy.... etc etc etc.
Conflicts are bound to happen in a country like ours. If those with authority continue to slack and do not act urgently, things like this will continue to happen again.
I am most interested to see if the punishment would even take place.

Thanks for reading.

5:01 PM  
Anonymous hafizmk said...

totally agree with you Mick. Good points...also show the good understandings, and capability of thinking outside the box

7:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Assalamualaikum to all Muslims reading this and May Peace and Guidance of God be to the rest!

Brother fonz,
The reference to Jesus @ Eesa Alaihis Salam (peace be upon him) being sent only to the Lost House of Israel is both found in the Last Testament of God @ The Holy Qur'an and in the Bible.

Please go to this site below and read for yourself.

Dear brothers and sisters,

The Devil loves us to be at loggerheads against each other when we fall prey to our egos and wage war as we please.

No matter that we be Muslims or Christians or anything else, we will all be held responsible for all that we do here on Earth. Remember that!

May Peace and Guidance of God be with us! Ameen.

6:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

testing 1 2 3

12:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Brother fonz,
The reference to Jesus @ Eesa Alaihis Salam (peace be upon him) being sent only to the Lost House of Israel is both found in the Last Testament of God @ The Holy Qur'an and in the Bible."


If there's one religion that should belong to one race is Islam. Why? You have to be very well verse in Arab to be really understand Islam. Therefore Islam should apply to Arabs only. It doesn't apply that to Christianity because you don't have to be know Hebrew, Arameic or even Latin to be a good Christian. The fact is you don't to belong to any race or ethnic to embrace whatever religion you want. The notion of this particular religion belongs to this particular race is so superficial.

My opinion, it's up to individual. If he/she feels or thinks that Islam can serve his/her spiritual and maybe physical needs, then so be it. Similarly, if one feels Buddhism/Hinduism/Christianity can fill up their spritual hunger and want to convert to that religion,he should have the freedom to do so.

1:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would like to share to my fellow Muslim friends about what really Christianity is all about in very laymen terms from a laymen person.

The greatest teaching in Christianity is LOVE. The teaching that Jesus died on the cross not to show God’s vulnerability but to show the ultimate act of LOVE – sacrifice oneself for the sake of the people that you love. In Torah we were taught about the Ten Commandments. But Jesus taught us that the greatest commandment is “love God with all your heart and with all your soul” and then the second greatest commandment is “love your neighbor as you love yourself”. And other part of the Bible (that shows how good I am) says you should love your enemy (this is no way to imply Muslims are my enemies, please – even though there are some of Christians and Muslims think otherwise).

This boils to another question. What is actually “love”? To simply put, love is charity (in one way) if someone is suffering of anything – help that person so that he feels better – i.e. derma/zakat

There are also prayers and fasting you have to perform mainly for the sake of your spiritual well-being – in a way pretty much standard routine to most religions. Of course one shouldn’t commit sins. If you did it (commit sins) pray and seek forgiveness from God and forgive (a must) to people who did wrong against you.

Well, there is also the “concept” of Trinity – which many Muslims thought the Christian believed three gods – which is of course not true. We in fact believed the same God/Allah. Basically, Trinity is One God in three different persona ( if you don’t get it, welcome to the club). It’s not like that. It’s a MYSTERY to us as much to you.

As you can see, to sum up, that is Christianity is all about. Of course if you learn more from the “text book” or the bible the simplified message is more or less like this.

Now, is this teaching wrong? My Muslim friends what do you think?

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Anonymous Malaya Kristian said...

The leaders in Government want peace in Malaysia. On the other hand, we have agents of hate everywhere, especially in social media. I have seen comments by Imams, even in Malaysia, on youtube reminding Muslim believers that the punishment for apostasy is death by beheading (after much persuasion to bring the apostate to revert to Islam failed).

I may not fully agree with another person's beliefs, but to show hate for me is a sign of immaturity. On the social media, we can often read hate, racist and sexist remarks. It becomes worst when a person calls for the beheading of another (because of some teaching of punishment for apostasy, blasphemy or insult of another's beliefs)

Dialogues with other faiths are the best solution. Falsely accusing another may lead to hate crimes, destruction and killing. We want to condemn extremists who only want innocent blood in their hands.

12:13 AM  

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